Episode 2 Coffee Chats: Sam Allweiss, LCSW, Mental Health First Aid, Burnout, Caring for Community

In this episode of Coffee Chats, Sara talks with Samantha Allweiss, a therapist at Room to Breathe. Sam talks about her journey through teacher training, her transition to working at Room to Breathe, her work implementing Mental Health First Aid training for yoga teachers, and how her understanding of self-care has grown in relationship to the communities she supports.

Connect with Sam at Samantha@RoomToBreatheChicago.Com

Mentioned in this interview:

Kelly George - a therapist and trainer in the Chicago area

Interview transcript {edited for clarity}

Sara Buxton: We can start with just like, who are you? Right, we're gonna ease into it. So I’ll do a little intro of who I think you are, like your role and just how you came into the space. But then you can give a little background on who you are at Room To Breathe, what you care about. And then what maybe a lot of people don't know. I mean, there's like this weird - what's the word I want? - I was thinking of ambiguity, but there's like always mysteries to therapists, if you're not their client, but there's also mysteries if you are their client, right? Because you're how they work with other clients, right? Or, like, who was the client they saw before me, like, all of those things. I could come up with so many different things on that. 

So anyway, we'll start. Obviously, you're Samantha Allweiss, LCSW. You came into Room to Breathe through our teacher training...2018?

Sam Allweiss: I think 2019. 

Sara: You were our first scholarship. You were at Refugee One. Which I always think I know a lot about, but I don't know enough about probably, in terms of your role there. Because I know you had a lot of hats. You are a heart centered, genuine, compassionate human. That cares a lot about how people feel in their environment. And I think you've played a huge role here, obviously, you have taken on the role of director of social inclusion and responsibility. I always mess that title up. But you basically advocate for our therapists and our yogi's and make sure we are developing the right policies and procedures that are taking care of folks outside of just getting their job done. And yeah, you're a therapist, and you're trauma informed. And you see folks, I think, of all walks of life. But I know you are very skilled in treating folks with chronic pain, and bringing in that somatic background with things. You have been a really nice bridge between our yoga studio and our therapy practice, and I think you're a really important voice in our community. Did I hit all the things that you feel or…? 

Sam: Yeah, we're good to go, right? [Laughs]

Sara: So why don't you share - it would be fun to hear about your journey, like your perspective of your journey, since 2019, from doing the teacher training with Serena. And being in person, which is not a common thing these days, especially with our teacher trainee cohorts. 

Sam: Yeah, I think I almost want to start backing up with how I found the teacher training, I became really interested in non-western non-centric forms of healing. And especially when I was working at Refugee One, and working with people that were non-native English speaking. I felt like I was doing a lot of the top down processing work, right, like the ‘thinking to feeling’ instead of the feeling and body based work, and I was just missing something in my clinical work. And so then I became really passionate about finding a way to do that. And I will never forget, someone posted on our University of Chicago alumni page, and it was for the teacher training and for a potential scholarship, because I was like, “I don't know”... I talk about this in part with my clients in specific ways, but I don't love public speaking. So I was like, I don't know if I can see myself teaching. I think I literally initially thought “Heck no.” But I really want to integrate this into my work, but it's not going to be a revenue generator for me. And I was also working in private and nonprofit work. And so the financial piece comes to mind and so I remember that. And also, I was finding a lot of very fitness focused yoga training. And I was like, that's not it. And I remember it saying ‘psychologically informed’, and I was like, What the heck, this exists? Are you kidding me? It was almost just like, this is exactly what I've been looking for months, I've been trying to find spaces, and then trying to find something that was cost affordable. And I couldn't find anything. And then it was just like this happened. And it was like one of those things  I remember calling a friend to be like, “Oh, my gosh, this happened. And it's too good to be true. Like, it's, there's no way it's gonna matter. Like, it's not gonna happen.”

Sara: It was our first offering! Which, maybe, you didn’t know at the time…

Sam: I had no idea. Then I've gotten really lucky in my life in these ways of like, the very first year that I was at University of Chicago for social work was the very first year they offered an international social work program, which then led me to Refugee One was a very first year they partnered with University of Chicago in taking students.

Sara: Oh, wow. 

Sam: And then this is like, the first year you all offered this scholarship. And so these things all fall into place in this really powerful way. So all that to say that when I started the teacher training, I still had a lot of these, like, Western-centric notions of what it would be. And I remember the very first day being like, hi, you know, my name is Sam. I'm not flexible. And Serena was like, “Okay.” It was like, “I'm gonna be really bad at yoga, I'm not flexible. I just want to let everyone know”. And, of course, Serena was like, “I don't, I don't care.”

And I also remember, yeah, being in space with people and learning and growing in a way that really helped sustain me for as long as it did in the community mental health space, because I was learning and growing in a way that I really hadn't had an opportunity to do in a while. Because it's, it's constantly you know, you're up against limited resources and more work than Burnham's will ever fund. And yeah, kind of combating the burnout and finding so much healing in taking teacher training. And so much personal growth.

Sara: It was no small feat. I mean, you were taking the train to downtown at least three times a week, if not more, some weeks when it was the Monday through Friday, five to niners.

Samantha: Yeah, and I got really lucky and my work was right off the red line. And you all are right off the Red line, so I just got to go straight down most days, and so that was just like, luck. But yeah, I just remember, all of the pieces falling into place like, oh, this is exactly what I had been looking for in the piece of my clinical practice that had been missing. And I was also going through my own health journey, had surgery and came in that day and really was struggling with coming to terms with my own physical limitations as a result of it and so, I also think, found a lot of healing in the way you all address - 

Sara: You can say we now!

Sam: Yes, yes, ‘you all’ at that time. And now we, thank you, the way we address and speak openly about the way yoga has been culturally appropriated and the way it is actually meant to be and the unity that has to come of the mind and body, and it's not getting your body into a pretzel or what you can make your body physically do but how to become more aware of your body. 

Sara: Totally. 

Sam: So I might have gotten off track in my response.

Sara: No, we’re still there. We're still a little Room to Breathe entry for you. Also speaking a little to your personal journey of your health. I think that, two things, you were at Refugee One, experiencing burnout, going through our teacher training, also dealing with your own personal health stuff. And then part of me wants to speak to our mental health training. In the training you gave me hard, but really good feedback. And you now are responsible for helping us evolve our programming, and bridging those gaps and seeing those gaps of, how we are delivering trainings to non-therapists and making sure that it is appropriate, and also comprehensive for somebody who's not in the mental health field. And for some reason, I just kind of want to go on that topic. Because I feel like it's a good thing to chat about - back in the first offering of our teacher training, it was like, well, Sara, you should just do this Mental Health First Aid module of the teacher training, which is intentionally for yoga instructors to feel supported in all the psychology that walks into the space, and all the psychological support potential, that can be placed on the yoga instructor. And… My weakness is developing programming. Which you've probably learned, and why you and Eric are such a big part of our leadership now. But something that happened in there was you were able to sit with my delivery of like definitions and my fear of going into scenarios, because I didn't know what was too much, and what was trauma evoking, if you will, for folks. And since 2019, you've really helped us evolve that, you've brought Kath into it, and they've helped bring in their expertise on that. And yeah, I think that is also part of your role here. It started back when you were training. And I think in hindsight, I can see that, like, Oh, damn, like Samantha was already giving feedback where feedback needed to be given and helping us develop programming when she wasn't even working here yet.

Sam: Well, in my work before, our mental health program was embedded in the resettlement agency. And so what was unique about that is, we had such a multidisciplinary team. And so I also think that's what was really helpful for me in thinking about, okay, how can we have conversations with non-mental health professionals about mental health and, you know, this might be calling out things that I think it's okay to call out - a lot of Mental Health First Aid trainings are very much focused on diagnoses. And like all of the ones that I've taken in the past. And so I had started in my own work and with agencies who are supporting refugees and new immigrants in mental health was coming into play, even if they weren't clinicians. That became something I was really passionate about, like, how do we actually have these conversations in ways that are approachable for non-mental health professionals. So I got lucky in some ways, that was a perspective that I already had, because mistakes had been made. And in the past, I'm taking for granted what I think folks know. And recognizing - no, this is because I've had access to this as a clinician, and just how stigmatizing mental health can be. I think, to your point, it makes sense that you had those questions, because I think there can be a lot of fear evoked when we talk about mental health. It seems like it's happening more frequently. But there's a lot of challenges in terms of how do we have these conversations, and get really honest, that yeah, this could show up in your space because we are calling in folks, and we are recognizing we are psychologically informed in our yoga and that that might shift the population that's interested in participating in our community. And that can lead to sometimes challenging situations and scenarios, though I think it can happen absolutely anywhere, without there being so much fear for a new teacher trainee, that, then they shut down around…

Sara: Right. And if I bring in diagnoses, it just brings in more fear instead of the normal human experience of, you can hold space for this. And here's the boundary between what you can hold space for versus what you don't need to do, control, or fix and where we can come in for support. And I think you've done a wonderful job at moving the Mental Health First Aid and how we define psychologically sensitive yoga in our community and continue to check in on each other on how we are embodying that in both our teaching and showing up in the therapy space.

Sam: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you bringing that in. Because I think what the anxiety that shows up for a lot of people is they're taking too much responsibility. And they're thinking that they have to hold things that's not within their realm, or area of expertise and not theirs to hold. And I think it's hard conversations. I mean, we've had this a lot, right, that there are gaps in the system, there are things that still are just not working, right, I think we're moving in the direction away from policing mental health crises. But that's historically been what's happened and continues to happen. And so like sitting in the hard conversations, I think is important, but also recognizing, this is not all your responsibility, and you can't fix this system in one interaction. And so here's grounded things that you can do to respond in a way that is most compassionate, and loving, and human. Because that's what someone in crisis is, at the end of the day, just another human experiencing a really hard thing, that if we can just bring it back to the humanity of it, I think it helps alleviate a lot of the anxiety.

Sara: If we take away like the terms and the professionalism of it, more of just like: this is a situation that feels really big in a really small…like when we're talking about yoga instructors in a yoga class, this is like an hour of the day and that human that's dealing with something that you can hold space for is just a small blip of time. And you have the skills to hold that space. And you also have the support of a community behind you.

Sam: Right. Yeah. And I think, you know, the idea of, here are the resources that you can turn to, because you are not responsible for addressing someone's mental health concerns. Like that is not what a yoga instructor is there to do yoga can have benefits to someone's mental health, but it's not a mental health service in its singular design. And so I think that that piece is really important to have, like, let's make sure people understand what resources they can share with people they can turn to if someone's in crisis. So that you don't have to figure it out. And then the thing that I love that we do is, in this scenario, is having people practice the language, how do you offer compassion to someone? What does that sound like coming from your voice? So that we're not asking someone to call upon these things that maybe don't yet feel authentic or natural to them. So continuing to practice…

Sara: Especially when they're in their own crisis when they're dealing with a crisis.

Sam: Yes, yeah. Right. And, you know, we're humans too. Our own trauma can show up and all of those things. And so the more grounded people are, and ‘what is it that I can do? What can I not do?’ It also helps us stay regulated, what is it that I want to say, how do I want to approach this and practice that, then it just makes it that much less scary.

Sara: Yeah. So not to totally change the subject, but I want to talk about your other roles here. And maybe just you as a therapist, because one of my intentions of Coffee Chats is to get tastes of folks and I think the hardest “taste” to get is of a therapist when you don't actually work with them yet. I don't know what my direct question for you would be…because part of me also feels you play a huge role in guiding therapists and kind of speaking to what you were just saying, right? Like, you have a really compassionate approach to folks. And you're really specific and clear on making sure therapists are taking care of themselves, and regulated and knowing how to regulate. I don't really have a direct question, but more so just let's speak to your evolution as a therapist and a supervisor at Room to Breathe. Because you've been here since 2020. Just wild. To me, I mean, I think we can all say 2020 to 2023 feels like the longest and shortest lapse of time that has ever been.

Sam: What even is time? [Laughs]

Sara: But yeah, because you came from literally, Serena telling me that you were thinking of leaving Refugee One, I was like, let's pounce. So you have since built a full caseload, and you have three supervisees and a group. You're also my go to person for how to write out language for things and you do a lot of the onboarding. And that has happened in the last year and a half. So, yeah, what would you say is the biggest thing you've gained or learned since joining in 2020?

Sam: That's a really good question.

Sara: Because you've grown a lot. So maybe, I mean, you're the person who shared growth edges with me. And that's like, one of my favorite terms and things to reflect on. So maybe you can even name some of your growth edges that you've grown through.

Sam: Sure. Yeah. I remember hearing, shortly after I came on, I was listening to a training. And it was about self care. And one of the things that the trainer said was, you know, we need to start thinking about self care as community care. And that if we can keep ourselves well, a great example is in the pandemic, we are caring for the whole community. I think I had a really hard time practicing self care, initially, a lot of my self care, when I thought of self care, it just had to be productive. So I think I've grown personally, and actually when we did the exercise from Kelly's training, this past week, the values training. I realized that one of my primary values now is inner peace. And I said to my group, there is no way that's what it would have been before. Because I was so externally focused and so focused on caring, and I think, trying to hold way too much for other people that was not mine to hold. So in part, you know, when I talk about the Mental Health First Aid training, it's been lessons learned of ways that I've showed up to crises that really extended beyond what was my responsibility, when I was an intern. And so I think that piece has really informed how I am as a supervisor, and also just understanding that burnout is not just a fault of an individual, that it's a fault of systems, larger systems, and then also needs to be thought of as what is it the organization, the practice, what is it that - where's that failure happening? And then how to shore that up. And so, I think I also am very cognizant about where are my supervisees at personally, how are they doing as a human. Because that doesn't leave the therapy room. And is that being attended to. And it came really from my own evolution of understanding how important that is. And that when I did it, it really did have an impact on my overall physical health and mental health too. But that was the wake up call that I was having. One of the hardest things I've ever done in my life was transitioning out of community mental health, I always said I would never do it, that I would go to my grave doing it, and then just recognizing that it, unfortunately, and it's not an indictment of any particular organization, in a lot of ways it's not a sustainable model. And so, having to transition and then having time - like, how do I do with my time, and then kind of finding the things that really bring me joy, and seeing how much that actually helps me grow as a clinician, that it's not just taking so many CPUs or going to this training or learning this theoretical model its like, who am I as as a person, and my reflective supervisor really helped transform it for me, because I am not personally very religious. But she said to me, you're spiritual. And that was huge for me, because a lot of our conversations in my reflective supervision is, how are you cultivating that spiritual connection, and I think about it as connection to the larger world, around me and nature, and being a good steward of the world and caretaker of the world. And so I think that piece then also informs the way I approach my supervision. And then thinking about the practice as a whole, and what is it really to be in community with each other? And how do we, how are we the best community members to each other possible, and that is the framework through which the policies became really important to me, or the reason why. And just seeing how that is what helps combat burnout and creates really excited, healthy, engaged therapists that then can care for the folks that they can care for in a sustainable way. So yeah, I'm not sure I answered all of your questions. 

Sara: You did, because I think you also approach therapy in that same worldview, if you will, with that same worldview. And I think, speaking to maybe, how are you bringing yoga into it - because when you say spirituality, I also think of your own practice of yoga and inner peace as a value usually means you have some form of spirituality, and some form of a system of hope, if you will, is sometimes how I refer to spirituality. Like you have a compass that is both within you, and outside of you, and you have a place, you have a personal resource. I think you spoke a lot to your growth of how you have navigated, not away from your work at Refugee One, but you've navigated from a space of servitude, that wasn't working for you and more into a space of passion and abundance with the work that you want to do and recognizing that accessibility is a really complicated and complex term when we're talking about mental health. I think that's a huge thing that keeps mental health workers in the cycle of burnout. That place of like, well, I'm not helping somebody if I'm not also sacrificing a huge part of me. And I think that's kind of what you're speaking to. that huge growth part. But I'm also kind of shifting us into how you have continued this conversation of accessibility. Because you just went from being super accessible to a specific population of refugees to also still being accessible but there being limits and you being a very important piece of being taken care of in that space and continuing to figure out what pieces of our system hold us less accessible than an agency, if you will. But also there are agencies that are super inaccessible when we're talking about mental health care. To round out our conversation, maybe just speaking to some of the conversations that you and I have had about how do we continue to evolve as a private practice, that's integrated with therapy and yoga, that's in a really different space, when it comes to like - we have our yoga side. And we're navigating being a yoga studio in this period of time, which is hard. And we also have this private practice space, where you're helping us build this community of therapists and have that conversation of building the bridge between yoga and therapist, while also working up against yoga costs money to keep the business alive, therapy costs money to keep a business alive, and we can still be accessible. But we've had to ask a lot of questions about that. 

Sam: Yeah. And I appreciate you bringing this in because to the point we talked about earlier in terms of Mental Health First Aid we can simultaneously acknowledge the issues with the system while also recognize we are not fixing it overnight. And there are these limitations, these systems, that we’re operating in, but we don’t have to get complacent in that. I think there’s the advocacy piece that I see as so much a part of my personal life and the way I orient myself and also it shows up in the therapy space with clients. And it’s also talking about, okay, within the system, what are ways that we can increase accessibility? One of our biggest pushes right now is the groups piece. And when we think about accessibility one thing that I loved, loved in the training, and was my capstone was chair yoga. Because it’s also thinking about if people have chronic pain, have chronic health issues, how can we actually ensure that they can still participate in a way that helps them feel safer, not less safe in their body? And having conversations about how do we increase access through insurance, through taking as many insurances as possible in a way that’s actually sustainable. Because you could do the firefly model and - 

Sara: I don’t know if I know that.

Sam: I talk about it with supervisees - you can be a firefly, and shoot up in the air, and you’re just gonna burn yourself out. I guess firework model. And you’re gonna burn yourself out really quickly or you’re gonna shine really bright and you’re gonna have no juice left. Or it’s a sustainable model with the continued push in advocacy piece. Talking about - how do we amend our hiring practices so we make sure that were both having our clinical community reflect the populations that we wanna serve and how are we also ensuring that we are working with folks who are aligned with our mission and also not just pulling from the same pool - and then having folks that look like us and present like us and have the same histories - it doesn’t work for our client population and it doesn’t work to better us as a practice. All of it is one and the whole, that accessibility piece is also thinking about how are we increasing access in terms of having diversity in our clinicians so that when folks come to us they can see their identities reflected back in our clinicians. That’s always the dream and goal. 

Sara: You’re delightful to talk to. We could go on and on but I feel like this is a good place to wrap up. How do people find you - they find you on our website. You are looking to figure out how you show up in the yoga space. We’ll save that intro for another day. I don’t think our Room to Breathe would be as successful without you, I hope you know that. I hope more people know your name after this chat, with our like three youtube subscribers…we’re gonna be famous. [Laughs] I’m sure we’ll have another chat, and it may be more specific to accessibility, or your role in leadership on our team or maybe even the chronic pain community and showing up in the mental health space. We could go for days.